I joined Goodreads back in 2007 mainly because Shelfari would only allow me to record 200 books. For the longest time I used Amazon to keep track of the books I read. But I grew tiresome of the shenanigans there with people leaving rude comments on reviews, some of which made me cringe because they were so angry and harassing against the one who posted the review. The majority of the time this would involve an author popping up with flames coming out of their head upset over a review about their book. One thing would lead to another and there would be public flame war where an author behaving badly comes to mind. Also having someone give you an unhelpful star for your review for no reason you can think of also put a bad taste in my mouth. I still post my reviews up at Amazon because I’ve been doing so since the mid 1990’s and no one is going to stop me or make uncomfortable just because I may say something about a book they don’t agree with.
Well, this same type of behavior has arrived at Goodreads. In the past few months it has become so volatile over there. And not necessarily because of an author leaving a condescending comment on a review because their book was given one star or because a reviewer has gone into great detail about why the book didn’t work for them with a nice side of snark. Authors should know full well not to pop up and say, “But you don’t understand my muse, the real meaning behind my masterpiece! How dare you say such horrible things when I put my heart and soul into this book!”. Sorry to say authors, the person who reviewed your book doesn’t care how hard you slaved over your computer or how much of your life you gave up to write a book they think is horrible.
Let’s be honest here. There’s no written rule on how reviews should be written. Reviewing is not an art. No one can get a degree in reviewing or be an expert in the field of reviewing. How does someone become an expert in a non-existence field because last time I check anyone can write a review? Some review amazingly well; while others don’t. And if someone is going to plop down money and buy your work, they have a right to criticize the way they see fit. Even if they said the book they read is the worst piece of crap ever published and lit it on fire, it’s their right. Is it fair? No. But life isn’t fair. The moment you put something out there for the public at large to read, it’s open season. And if you can’t take the criticism, no matter how mean, snarky or cruel it may be, you’re in the wrong line of work. And it’s an unwritten rule and a strong belief from both sides that a reviewer shouldn’t personally criticize an author based on looks, the clothes they were or their personality. But it sometimes does happen because again, there are no rules to reviewing. *this occurred a few months ago at Goodreads where comments were left on a review were the reviewer gave her very honest and brutal opinion. The author’s weight and style of clothing was soon mentioned and made fun of. Someone went as far to say they wouldn’t buy the author’s books because of how horrible the author looked. Eventually these very mean girl and immature comments were deleted by the initial reviewer because of the backlash from the public who were vocal against those leaving such derogatory comments about the author.*
This post is not about how authors should behave in public when commenting on reviews. We’ve been over that time and again. What I’m talking about is when other reviewers harass their fellow reviewers over reviews. This behavior I’m seeing has become a big WTFckery wankfest to the ultimate degree. And what’s even more pathetic is that the majority of the wankest is from adults. It has become so high school mean girl cliquish over at Goodreads with the uncomfortable name calling and over all rudeness just because some will state their honest opinion about a book. Some will post pictures and poke fun at what they read. Some reviews can be very mean, cruel and unflinching. But as long as they review the work and not the author, again they’re welcome to say what they think. Does that mean they should be harassed because of it? No.
Goodreads has become a place where people will go after reviewers on a very personal level. I’ve noticed the wankfest is especially strong for reviews left for Young Adult books. Any clue why? I can’t figure it out. Every time I see someone leave a scathing review or give a 1 star to a much beloved YA book, those people who loved the book come out fighting dirty. Name calling and put downs are the norm it seems. Reviewers are calling other reviewers “assholes” for not giving a book 5 stars or saying the book isn’t the best thing since the invention of the wheel. Recently a reviewer by the name of Tatiana, who mainly reviews YA books, posted her review of Kami Garcia and Margaret Stohl’s Beautiful Creatures. Tatiana had a very strong opinion on why she didn’t like Beautiful Creatures, but stated her case perfectly. I loved Beautiful Creatures, but enjoyed Tatiana’s review because it was a very different opinion from my own.
Then someone comes along, who most will consider to be a troll, leaving a few asshat comments there including one where he says that the review is, “dumber than a Blonde with big tits.”
Offensive not only to the reviewer who took the time to write a thoughtful review, but offensive to blondes and women with a big chest. Seriously, is this behavior needed? All because someone didn’t think the book you loved more than your first born wasn’t for them and they expressed their opinion in a way you didn’t agree with? Seriously, grow up.
When one of the reviewers I follow on Goodreads, who does a stand up job reviewing, leaves this in her general update:
“I'm sorry if my review caused you to buy a book that you disliked. And I'm sorry that I reviewed a few books differently than you. I'll rethink my reviews in the future. But please, I don't deserve being called an "asshole".
I’m close to bringing out my inner Hulk as both a reader, reviewer and author. This upsets me greatly because the belief is that no one has time to read. Goodreads is proving this wrong with the massive amount of reviews there and the ongoing books discussions every day. Why should someone feel less than they are or be harassed because they enjoy reading and want to share their opinions on a forum? Reviews are so very subjective. I can’t think of one book that is universally loved by everyone who has ever read it.
Can someone explain to me why people would get into a tizzy over a review they may not agree with? Why would anyone bring forth such anger and personal verbal lashing to a person just because of a difference of opinion? Again, the worst thing for a book and the author is having no one talk about their work. Just as someone who has read a book and has no one to talk to it about.
Can you imagine if a reader was afraid of chatting about the books because they feared the possible cruel verbal backlash from their peers because they’re in the minority about their opinion on what they read?
What do you think? Have you seen cruel and embarrassing behavior on Goodreads?
Vinaya over at The Book Lantern has a great post up about this issue called Crossing the Line — Differentiating between Honest and Harsh I recommend you check out as well.
Friday, May 13, 2011
The Wankfest that has Become Goodreads
Posted by KB/KT Grant at 1:15 PM
Labels: Goodreads Wankfest
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19 comments:
I don't leave reviews there so I haven't seen any myself. I have seen it on blogs and Amazon and it doesn't surprise me to hear about it on Goodreads. Trolls are everywhere. They're determined to spew hate b/c either they don't care or b/c they do care who they hurt along the way. I think they do it for attention and because in some way it makes them feel good and the better person. I don't see how, but that's what I expect is going on.
Too many people believe it's all about them. You review a book they loved and say you don't like it and they take it to personally say you are saying THEY have no taste.
Despite how well written the review is or the reasons given, etc.
It's a sad commentary on the times, but "it's all about ME" is so prevalent.
I'm a new author and figure there are going to be people who despise what I wrote and people who will love it. Hey, there is enough room in the world for everyone!
Perhaps there does need to be rules about how reviews are written...
And I wish I could figure Goodreads out... ;-)
Oh and as a YA book blogger (www.literatureyoungadultfiction.com) (...I'm all over the place - romance/ya/what next?) I follow about a hundred YA book blogs in my Google reader and they have as much drama as the romance community does when it comes to authors/reviewers/others acting up. I subscribe to the idea of don't say anything you wouldn't want said to you mentality. It's the golden rule for a reason, right? :) I just hope I mitigate drama and not cause it/feed the flames.
Some people are just assholes. You can't get away from them, even on the interwebz.
I think it's the anonymity of the internet that lets people be just as a-hole-ee as they really feel without fear of being recognized or called out in any real way. It's a shame that they can't maintain some semblance of courtesy online, but, let's face it; there are lots and lots of people who aren't as nice on the inside as they let on in the real world.
I agree with mepamelia. Some people take courage from the fact that they are sitting in front of a keyboard and don't have to actually look a person in the eye when they post something online.
There’s no written rule on how reviews should be written. ... How does someone become an expert in a non-existence field because last time I check anyone can write a review?
I have to disagree with this somewhat. There might not be specific rules, but critical reviews have substance, and are in most instances well-written. They don't read like this..."the heroine had red hair and the hero had gray eyes. I really hated this book. The hero and the heroine did nothing for me."
That's not a review it's an opinion. Two VERY different things IMHO. YOU do reviews here on the blog. You're thoughtful and respectful in showing why you hold your opinion. It's not trivial or inane. And I've seen some INCREDIBLY stupid reviews (positive and negative ones)
Although you're sharing your opinion in your review, you do it in a way that tells potential readers of a book, why the book may or may not work for them, which is what a good review does. Opinionated commentary is NOT a review.
I’ve noticed the wankfest is especially strong for reviews left for Young Adult books. Any clue why?
What's the median reader age for YA books? The younger the reviewer, the higher the probability for immature behavior. Then again, the a$$ who wouldn't let me pass him this morning was not much younger than me, and I hope he gets a flat!!! Grrr
It's also the negative side of the Internet and it's ability to be NON-transparent because anyone can be anyone else. That an society's downfall in terms of civility.
Goodreads is proving this wrong with the massive amount of reviews there and the ongoing books discussions every day.
Goodreads is a joke. I've had someone read the three chapters of my book on my website and then review it. They didn't read the entire book, but they gave a book a 1 or 2 star based of three chapters. I don't care what rank the book gets, when you don't BOTHER to tell anyone else your thoughts are just on the excerpt, I find that dishonest. How do I know this? Because a) the review was made SIX months prior to publication, b)I did not provide this individual with a copy of the book. It's fine if an individual doesn't like an excerpt, and want to express an opinion. But for Christ's sake, beg honest when you do something like that.
And I really despise people who do that sort of thing (reviewing on a portion of the book). I've had this type of thing done more than once. It's not a review at all. You can't do a fair, honest review without reading the whole book.
I wouldn't follow you if I thought your reviews were less than honest, forthright and helpful. Off my soap box now.
I agree with a couple people who left messages.This kind of stuff will never stop.People who think they are perfect sit behind the lap top and say what would not be said in person .Fiction V. got it right nobody would say what I have seen at goodreads to the face of the person who posted.Why? do not have the guts to say it to them.It is a big joke to these people. On line people hide behind the screen and just let go ha ha ha who going to know really it is a hugh game to those type of people hurt as many in one shot as you can.This ends up a cluster F.For reviewer or author who jumps online nothing good comes out of it.This will never change and it is a shame we as humans have lost anything that has to do with courtesy.I always read blogs but never add comments very much because people get mean even on line it hurts.I think wow wonder if you ever know the person who is nasty on line because I bet in real life they passing them selfs off as all suger and sweet but hiding behind all is a sad fake human.Till goodreads or amazon cleans up the nasty comments and stops it after the first few get bad it will go on.This I feel is not coming from young people but older adults and trolls who never even read say the book but leave nasty hateful reviews.Laughing while they do it this to me is bully online and not good.
Keira: If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all works when people are face to face, but with the internet, where people can be anonymous, they're more prone to speak up without a filter. :(
Maureen: I think some just like to cause drama for drama's sake.
Heidenkind: True.
Mepamelia: I'd like to think there are more lovely and wonderful in the world than the jerks trying to bring people down to their level.
FV: Me as well.
Debbie: Seems so childish, doesn't it?
I've seen the drama on Goodreads and Amazon. I just don't get it.
I don't think they have moderators on those sites, do they?
On Goodreads, I just leave whatever star I feel the book deserve.
On Amazon, if I really like the book, I'll leave a review.
All of my dislikes, I reserve for my blog. Its less drama for me that way.
Well you know I have pointed out myself that almost gang like mentality on Goodreads.
I feel more than capable of putting my foot down and telling people to back off but it just gets so depressing you have to do such things on a site devoted to reviewing books.
But it seems Goodreads has turned into a site devoted more to selling books and keeping an image.
Ren: Drama makes things more fun?
TP: Goodreads has become cliquish. I noticed when one will comment in a rude way, a few others come along and do the same.
I pretty much don't know about all the wank that's going on in goodreads. I have limited amount of friends and ppl I follow. I don't involve myself too much in the discussions of the few groups I'm a part of.
Mostly it's a place I go to see what my friends are reading and thinking. Also, I don't review over much. There are very few books that move me to an opinion worth articulating (it's usually, I liked, I didn't like it).
I think like everything else, there will be bad apples... there's nothing wrong with deleting asshole comments. My rule is if I don't like it, delete it/ignore it and they don't matter.
I've had a review or two criticized by other readers on Goodreads and Amazon and on my blog. On Goodreads and Amazon, I don't even respond to them. What's the point? People rarely change their minds about what they felt about something and there's no point to argue. What am I going to say? You're wrong?
I just ignore it.
I think most of those people who troll like that are just looking to stir shit and get a reaction. Just don't react to them or feed them trying to be nice or whatever.
On my blog it's different because those having differing opinions on a book from mine are regular readers and we are capable of hashing things out in a civil way.
I'm sad to hear about this behavior. I haven't noticed it myself because I'm on there to record my reading progress, or lack there of lately, and then gone shortly afterward. I don't post my reviews one at a time but wait til I have a few to put up. And I don't usually read many reviews that are on there already. I like it when people comment on my reviews but haven't had any negative feedback from anyone. So sorry to hear others are attacking and being rude. That kind of behavior is unacceptable and those doing the misbehaving should be punished by Goodreads admins.
*heads desk*
Why can't people just accept that others have opinions that may differ from their own? Why is that so difficult a concept? GRRRR! I don't necessarily agree with some reviews I read, but that doesn't mean I don't respect a well thought-out and written review.
You said, "The moment you put something out there for the public at large to read, it’s open season. And if you can’t take the criticism, no matter how mean, snarky or cruel it may be, you’re in the wrong line of work. "
And the same can be said about reviewers. Now I'm not pointing that out to be beoytch. No you may not be getting paid. No those trolls have absolutely no right or good enough reason to personally attack a reviewer. Ever. But reviewers are putting out their opinions to the general public.
As some of the commenters pointed out some people are simply douche bags and it must escape their notice that it's simply an opinion.
As you said, "Is it fair? No. But life isn’t fair."
I don't know how many times Jane or anyone at DA has been personally attacked for their opinion. Same goes for any well known reviewer. This facet has become a part of the "job". Shameful really because it's uncalled for. Will it change? Doubt it.
Though I think Goodreads (and their ilk) should prevent repeat offenders of this type of behavior from posting/participating.
Sofia: You do have a point and I agree that no reviewer should attacked another reviewer or an author. But because there are no set rules, this happens.
I do believe Goodreads needs to pay more attention to what is going on and not sit back and fold their hands while this uncomfortable behavior happens.
Why do people keep watch over books they've already read and reviewed? Do they seriously feel the need to guard and protect them. I thinks it's kinda stalker creepy.
Plus most reviewers have followers and that's who they're writing them for. It's like a girlfriend telling you not to order something at a resturant. You trust them and unfortunatly, it's not always about the positives.
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