If I'm reading an Urban Fantasy, should the heroine or hero be some sort of a kick ass with secret power or skilled in another way? If that main protagonist was a sad sack or too much of a beta, is the author breaking some unwritten rule? In a contemporary romance, I expect the independent and smart heroine to end up with the man of her dreams, get married and spend the rest of their lives together, while the heroine still has this sense of empowerment and ended up handling this relationship on her terms. In a historical romance I expect the hero to be this dashing, semi-experienced lover, (sorry, I HATE regency man whores) who's some lord or works in a field where he's successful. He ends up finding the woman of his dreams, who is either too innocent or too worldly, but regardless of her personality and demeanor, she can see how special the hero is and will overcome a great catastrophe in her past or during the run of the story and come out of it with the hero by her side.
Another expectation is when an author takes their time writing their novel. I would hope after spending years on it, the book would blow me away in such a way where I want to re-read it again and again. I've noticed an upswing in the amount of books an author will publish in a year. Back when I was in high school and college, I would be thrilled to read a book published by an author every few years, now it's not a surprise when an author has not only two books out, but in some cases, three or four in one year. Look at Gena Showalter , Shiloh Walker and Nora Roberts as an example. These women aren't writing short stories, they're writing full length single titles, over 300 pages, clocking in at 90,000 words, give or take.
So is the case of Lisa Valdez, who after five years to almost the day from when her debut release Passion came out, will have her second historical romance Patience released on April 6th.
Mho giving some love to Patience
Now you better believe this book better have all the bells and whistles, where I'm on the edge of my seat reading because it took Valdez five years to write a 368 page historical romance. Seriously now, this is no epic thousand page manifesto. And if J.R. Ward can publish a 700 plus page, 125,000 word book a year, and now in her case, two a year with her new series, you can bet that when I read Patience, I will find myself with a lack of "patience" if it doesn't deliver. Cruel as my thinking maybe, I expect this book to blow me away because of the time she took to write the thing. Something that's five years in the making should be an awe inspiring, amazing read.
But than again it took Thomas Harris ten years to write Hannibal and that book was a WTCkery right there.
Another expectation I've just realized is when it comes to character descriptions. I don't expect a whole head to toe one with knowing their color of their underwear and type of deodorant they use, but just enough to give me an idea, a visual I can have in my mind while I read. This happened as I read Num8ers by Rachel Ward. Did you know that there is an interracial romance within the story? Jem, the heroine who can see a person's date of death by looking them straight in the eye, runs away with a fellow school mate Spider. He's given this nickname because he's gangly, big, tall, smokes and smells. In my mind I really thought Spider was a Caucasian boy who wears dark clothes.
Rachel doesn't give the reader any inclination that Spider is black until page 164 when: "I thought I heard a little squeak from the girl. I glanced at her. She was absolutely terrified. Quite possible wetting herself. She'd probably never ever seen a black man, let alone a six-foot four, foulmouthed black dosse."
I did a double take and had to re-read that section because up to this point there was no description or explanation stating Spider was black. I mentioned this to someone in an email and they didn’t think it was a big deal Ward wasn't as forthcoming with Spider because they honestly don't think every character they read is white.
I sat there thinking something very horrible about myself. Because I'm white, is my prejudice showing? Unless an author gives a well-rounded description of a character, do I think a character is white until I'm told otherwise?
Is it the author's job to give a detailed description of a character, where a reader won't scratch their head and go, "huh"?
Am I wrong in admitting that I think Ward should have been more upfront with Spider's physical description? Perhaps I'm looking too deeply into it and this is just a case where it wasn't caught by her or her editor? Or maybe that was Ward's plan all along?
What are your expectations as a reader? Do you like very detailed descriptions of your characters? And if an author take years to write a much anticipation book, do you expect it to be a near perfect read. If not, would you be disgruntled?
45 comments:
---> Cruel as my thinking maybe, I expect this book to blow me away because of the time she took to write the thing. Something that's five years in the making should be an awe inspiring, amazing read.
Wow. I'm...kinda speechless. You have absolutely no idea what was going on in the writer's life during that five year timespan. Maybe she was fighting cancer. Maybe she was in a car accident, lives with chronic pain, and it takes everything she's got to eke out one hour a day at the keyboard. Maybe she has a special needs child. Maybe her parent, husband or child died. Maybe she was blocked. Maybe her agent or publisher dropped her. Maybe she had to pick up a day job to keep food on the table.
Maybe, maybe, maybe. Do you get my point?
Because I'm white, is my prejudice showing? Unless an author gives a well-rounded description of a character, do I think a character is white until I'm told otherwise?
Maybe.
It's not like Ward described Spider's skin "white" or "pale" or in any way that made you think he was white.
Maybe Anon should just come right out and tell us how s/he really feels...
I think we all have expectations are readers. It's really impossible not to, since books are mostly internal..we take from them what we want.
As for the white thing..I honestly don't think of Ward's characters as being white. But I have done that with other books before. I think partially I'm to blame and partially the author is...but then it's not secret that I like a full description.
Anon: That could be a good possibility also and I'm sorry if you are speechless and offended by my honestly, but these are things I've wondered about.
Nadia: You have a point there. But if an author doesn't give a description of what the character looks like I am clueless at to what they look like.
Holly: I really don't mean to be insensitive and there is a good possibility Valdez had any of these issues, but as a reader you can bet that after waiting years upon years, I am not going be thinking differently when reading the book. If Valdez had these personal problems, does that mean when and if I post my review, I am going to be a bit kinder because of an author's personal problem?
Lately with Ward I have no idea what her men are half the time. LOL
Here's the thing about Valdez - and maybe I am just an insensitive bitch - but SO THE EFF WHAT? So what if she had personal issues or blah blah blah...every few months she'd pop back up and say, 'oh! here comes the book' and then..'sorry, i lied..it's coming now!'
After about oh, I don't know, five years of that, I figure this book had better be the book of the century.
Chronic pain or special needs children or whatever, have the sense to say, "Hey, I'm working on it but I've got some personal issues and I'll let you know when it's done." I'd have much more respect for her than I do now, where people are leaving anon comments like, "oh, you just don't understand...".
At least Dan Brown came out and said the reason why it took him a long time to write after the Da Vinci Code.
But again with Valdez, how many times was her release date pushed back? And from what I read in Patience and what others have read, I think the romance readers are going to be rolling their eyes because the opinion isn't all that great about the book.
But that's the thing..I don't really care what her reasons are/were. It's honestly none of my business..
What I care about is the way she strung her readers along, promising the book was done and turned in and then saying, "oops, I guess it wasn't".
And really, I think there are better books and better authors who deserve the buzz.
I'm white.
I'm a visual reader (i.e., the story runs like a movie in my head).
Thus, I like description.
I definitely want a description of the characters up front so I can play the movie correctly.
I DON'T CARE what color the characters are. Just tell me what they look like so I can get on with my movie.
Yes, I will assume they are white if I'm not told.
As a writer, I have people of color and gay characters. As a reader, I would want to know this, so I define this.
Do I think you're awful for assuming the hero was white? No, because leaving it until page 164 is author fail.
Re: Lisa Valdez
Know what? I'm self-employed. In three businesses in three different sectors. I also have two high-maintenance, clingy children. I don't get a break on deadlines. My customers expect things when I promised them and they DO NOT CARE about my mommy issues or the other businesses taking up a bulk of my time or my doctor visits or my mood that day.
I don't see why Lisa Valdez should be cut any slack. You have committed to something, you get it done.
Well, a reader hopes that any book he or she spends his or her money on is worth it - whether the book took ten months to write or ten years. I've read works of utter brilliance that a writer maybe put a year or two into and other works that a writer spend years and years on - you might think my expectations would be the book that took the longest to write would be by far the most amazing, most incredible, most engrossing thing I've ever read - not necessarily. I've read some real stinkers that I know the writer spent years researching and I've read some outstanding works that a good, creative mind managed to pull together - along with an editor, in less than a year.
Here's what I think - it ain't the meat, it's the motion.
As far as a character's skin color - I do not require a head to toe detailed description of a character to get a general impression. In fact, I prefer that a description be a bit vague so I can put my own spin on a character's appearance, however, if a character is Black, or Hispanic or Asian, then I'd like an author to find an appropriate way to say so early on. A character's skin color shapes his or her world view and history, and shapes my vision of the character. Even if the character is...say...an Asian man who was adopted as an infant by a White couple - but then that's important for me to know too because once again, that history shapes the character's world view.
Okay - done!
I agree with Holly - if it's personal reasons that delayed a book, it's not my business, or yes, one update saying Hey, Personal Reasons, and let it be.
In fact, Valdez did cite personal self-esteem issues waaaaay back when the delay first started due to nasty reader email feedback. OK. I understand that. But like Holly, again, I don't particularly like that release dates kept being announced and yanked back. And who knows, maybe that was also partially excitable rumors effecting that too.
Whatever the case, I'm not surprised some would have higher expectations when a book takes so long to come out. Even if no one was talking about it online, there would still be fans anticipating it. Anticipation alone is enough to build up expectations. It's as involuntary as it is gossip-induced.
I'll be reading Patience whenever I get it, but I don't have any expectations one way or another, just that it be the usual good read I'd prefer like anything else.
As for Num8ers, I too did not realize the hero was black - and that's not because of his skin color, but because a description of him was witheld until later in the book, later than character descriptions usually are. Who gives a frig if it's an interracial relationship. That's not a big deal to me (altho yay for the representation in fiction). My thoughts are if character description is important, why not have it much sooner in the novel, before readers begin to form their own impressions without one? I know tons of us do this, sometimes without even realizing it. I don't understand at all why this has to be a white/black issue, and even if it was, what's the big deal? Babs realizes she MIGHT have approached the book as a white person, she's contemplated it and I know she'll grow from it. I don't think it reflects badly on her at all.
I thought Valdez couldn't write the 2nd book because some people were mean about her debut? I have no idea where I saw it, but I read something alluding to something to that effect years and years ago.
I'm not sure if it's going to be worth reading. Five years is a long time, unless you're JKR or Trevanian or Shakespeare #2.
It is nonsense that you expect the book to "blow you away" because it took so long to write. What do years of writing have to do with quality?
If as an author you can't write because you got bad reviews and people are mean to you, I think you need another line of work.
I also heard Valdez was written very cruel emails and that caused her grief.
But I have no sympathy if that is true. I know of a NY Times best selling author who has received some shocking mean emails as in, you suck as a writer, I hate your books. And she keeps writing and hitting the NY Times.
Nadia, for a while Valdez had a letter posted somewhere detailing her reasons for the delay; re the nasty feedback she got from some readers of Passion. It might have been on her site under News, or it might have been at Sybil's TGTBTU. Maybe both. But I remember that letter from Valdez.
If you have a debut that was well received as Passion was, which I really did enjoy reading, and then spent 5 years writing the next book and worked on yours craft to make it the best it can be, I would expect a well written enjoyable book.
But that's just me.
..or if you spent 5 years whining about mean emails and promising something that wasn't delivered..
Yes, high expectations indeed.
And really, why shouldn't readers expect a stellar book from an author..any author? It's asinine to suggest we want to read crappy books. "Oh, gosh, I hope after 5 years of waiting this book sucks big donkey balls!".
*snort*
KMont,
Thanks! I knew I wasn't imagining it! It just bugged me that I couldn't remember exactly why I thought that. :-D
I was so angry about Harris with Hannibal. After waiting year after year, a decade, he comes out with that piece of shit. Red Dragon and Silence of the Lambs blew me away.
Even when I read LKH back in the day and she would take 2-3 yrs to write the next Anita Blake novel, I was dying for it and when it finally came out, it was so good.
But then book 11 aka shower gel sex book came out and it all went down hill for me.
I have no particular expectations of 'Patience'. I wasn't blown away by 'Passion', so I guess I don't have as much of an emotional investment in the book as some readers (i.e.: I didn't check her website for updates). I will probably read the book at some point, though.
As a reader, I like physical descriptions of characters fairly early on in the story. I don't care what skin colour, eye colour, or hair colour, they have, but I like some key phrases which enable me to visualise the person.
Why should a writer have to explain themselves? Isn't that their problem and not yours? It's not like there were no other books to read on the shelves. I find it ridiculous that this author can't win for losing. Head on a platter yet again.
Why should a writer have to explain themselves?
They don't..not at all. But if they don't want their heads to end up on platters, perhaps they wouldn't begin by whining about all the mean girls in the world who pick on them and cause them writers block, then come back every few months making promises they have no intention of keeping...
"Shouldn't", not "wouldn't". sigh*
Hmm. I prefer having my descriptions up front so that I can picture something as I'm reading. It doesn't matter what the character looks like or what the race is as long as I have that picture and can merrily read. I think giving you the description so far into the book when it jars with whatever you made up already can throw you out of the story.
I bet it was an oversight with the description. A reader will always make up her own description when she isn't provided one, and I think most authors try to give one early. Maybe a section got changed or something and it was lost or something.
If I don't get a description, I think I picture the character based on other books I've read or people I've intereacted with. I don't think it's wrong to guess wrong if you are not given guidance.
It's all so subjective. People rush in to fill a blank the best they know how, or based on their own history. Same with your expectations. It's only human.
I prefer my character descriptions up front. I like to know is he tall? Hair color? ::cough:: Size etc etc? Although I don't think it is necessarily important to mention skin color (only if you want your readers to know)I do like to see hey this character is lily white, or has creamy toffee colored tan or has leprosy.
As for Valdez my heart goes out to her. If she received mean hate mail for writing a book... I can understand how that might prevent an author from writing a sequel. We all loose our confidence every now and again. That being said waiting 5 years and the back and forth release dates could have been handled differently. As for my expectations for long awaited release - uh hello, I want it to be awesome. I do tend to set the bar higher. Example 1. Julie Garwood's long awaited Highlander book (and no I can't remember the title - I think it had Song...Dance in the title? Damn my ) such a disappointment.
Shadow Dance..I actually cried at the end because I was so disappointed.
Also, KB, forgive me..I'm feeling antagonistic today.
Wow.I'm...kinda speechless. You have absolutely no idea what was going on in the writer's life during that five year timespan.
Eh, sorry, Anon, but that's not really Kate's responsibility... she's a reader waiting for a book, and if she feels after five years, she can expect one bang-up job, she's completely within her rights to expect that.
i don't know what the deal is with the mean emails being mentioned, but email/disgruntled readers are part of the biz.
Writers just have to learn to deal with them.
If they can't, that makes their life that much harder, and again, it's not any responsibility of any reader.
Katie, I do have to say that not everybody is going to write at the same pace. I tell people I've got two speeds. STOP. and GO. Either I'm at a dead stop...when I'm asleep. Or I'm just GOING, and when I'm going, I'm juggling five different things, or I'm doing one thing and usually at top speed. That's just me. I think I was born in a hurry... ;o) Maybe I figure it's the best way to be... I can enjoy more things.
About the character description, I don't assume every character I read is white. But it is helpful if the author gives me something.
Holly: Breaking Dawn made me want to jump off a cliff. LOL. You know I loves you. *smooches*
Holly, Still the author's problem and not yours.
It will become the author's problem if reader's will no longer read buy or read their books.
I do hope Patience is a wonderful read and I want the next one in this supposed series. But again, if it is true about an author having a bad reaction to mean girls or critics, where an author can't write because of that and we wait another 5 years for book 3, that's where I move along to authors I can trust to deliver on time.
Hate mail can definitely paralyze.
A friend of mine won't read any book in a series if the series isn't finished yet, because she hates waiting!
As to expectations, I recently read a contemporary romance in which we learned at about p. 200 that the hunky hero was 49. Now, I'm okay with an older hero if it works in the story. But was this old enough for a contemporary romance that we should've known his age from early on?
5 years is a long time, but I don't expect *less* of a book written in 5 months. I want every book I spend money on to be well written and worthwhile.
Anon, are you implying that it isn't fair for readers to complain about a long delay between books? I don't agree with that, or with your suggestion that Katie shouldn't discuss this topic on her own blog.
If readers will no longer read or buy? It seems that absence made the heart grow fonder for this author judging by the anticipation of this novel. Good for her.
I guess this is where the evolution of the reader/author relationship in the information age has that two-edged thing. Building buzz for a book is a different thing today than it used to be.
99% of the time, the length of time it takes to produce a book doesn't change my expectation of how it will be.
What I think is interesting is that when Passion came out 5 years ago it was quite shocking-and was shelved as romance. Now we have a whole new category of 'shocking' in erotic romance and mainstream romance has got very steamy too. I'm wondering if this new book will have the same impact the other one did. (and yes, I did read it and I liked it but didn't love it)
And we all get reviews, emails that make us feel bad/sick (well I do) but if you put your work out there, you really do have to suck it up and move along.
This is some interesting discussion and thanks so much for bringing it up. I agree with those that said I expect each book that I spend my time and money on to be of good quality and I'm disappointed when It's not. I'm in awe of those authors that can put out 2 and 3 books a year but I don't feel we as readers have any right to expect that as the norm.
Each creative person has a right to go at their own pace and then take the sales as they come.
As for the race issue. I'd like a character description early on otherwise I get my own image in my head and am disappointed if later it doesn't match up.
That said, Kate I can understand your having a preset character in your head. I think this comes from what media, tv, movies and the publishing industry has trained us to expect. There is to me still so much inequality in these areas and in the publishing industry then how can it not be expected?
Why do we have to look (mostly) to certain lines for the AA heroes? It should not be such a novelty or niche.
So who knows. Maybe I would have thought the same thing as you. I'm not sure.
To me there needs to be more inclusion all around with all races of heroes and heroines.
Very thought-provoking post KB - thank you. I'm actually not planning on reading Patience. It just doesn't appeal, although I did read Passion.
As for character descriptions - I like to have at least a smiddgen so that I can picture something. An amorphous blob just isn't that appealing, regardless of the genre :)
***gets on soapbox**
I agree, after a five year wait I'd expect a damn good book and if not - then I have a right to my opinion. I may have things going on in my personal life, but my employer still expects me to get to work and do my job - isn't this the same thing?
Diana Gabaldon took forever to write her latest book and what a huge disappointment. They should have took longer and edited it properly instead of a big rush at the last minute to get it on the shelves and sell books.
Authors put themselves out on the stage, same as actors, screenwriters, etc. Not everyone is going to like the same meal any more than we're all going to like the same book. That's life and again I have a right to my opinion.
There was a minor kerfuffle in historical fiction blogland wherein a couple of bloggers got their knickers in a knot about critical reviewers complaining about a novel's historical accuracy as it's all just fiction.
So if an author just makes stuff up out of their hat that doesn't make any common sense we're supposed to just shut up and remember it's fiction and let it go? Would we expect a character from a story set in the 70's to start sending text messages? If an author's going to write about a period shouldn't they do a little research and make an effort to keep it as believable as possible?
If I feel a book is badly written, I'm supposed to just shut up and not worry about an author's feelings and let others make the same mistake I did in wasting time on a bad book?
Sorry for rambling, in the end it's my time spent reading it along with my hard earned money (although I'm mostly a library girl), and I'm damn sick and tired of unhappy authors whining and trying to sabotage critical reviewers, as well as sending their pals to make anonymous snarky comments on critical Amazon reviews. And no I'm not kidding about that last I just spotted another one that I was able to find a Facebook tie-in to the author.
**gets off soapbox**
Misfit: Shouldn't authors also be held in the same regard as a person who goes into an office everyday? The same with actors and singers. If they sign a contract and must have their book, movie, album finished by a certain time, why should it be okay for them to have extension after extension?
Perhaps once or maybe twice but 5 years?
Orannia: Amorphous blob? Now I am thinking of the smog monster from the show Lost or Jabba the Hut. Hee.
Re: Num8ers, I had a similar reaction when I read one of CE Murphy's books. The main character was black, which wasn't mentioned until page 150-ish. I don't care if the characters in the book are black or not, but the way the author seemed to have deliberately withheld the information only to spring it on the reader for the direct purpose of being like, "Aha, you thought I was white didn't you???" was quite frankly annoying. I wasn't enjoying the book that much to begin with, but that was the final straw.
As for the Valdez novel... you have your expectations. Everyone does going into a book. I have insanely high expectations for Loretta Chase's books, because I know what she can deliver on them. Would I hold another author to the same standards? Probably not. Is that fair? No, but that's the way it is.
These are awesome topics!
The expectation of a reader (me) in waiting for a follow up book is high. If I have to wait 1+ years for more, I couldn't imagine waiting 5 years!, it better be damn good. Of course real life can get in the way and that's fine because guess what? Even authors DIE. Imagine that happening to one of our favorite authors.
And the issue of not enough description of a character? Yes, if the author is going to make a point of pointing out the color of a main characters skin they best be hinting at that all along and not come out of left field with the "oh and I'm black bitch". As others have already mentioned we don't care what color our characters are, we just want to get it right as soon as possible. Otherwise it's hard for us to rewind and replay everything with this new information.
Because I'm white, is my prejudice showing? Unless an author gives a well-rounded description of a character, do I think a character is white until I'm told otherwise?
You're not alone, the default setting for characters is white, so unless the author specifically mentions their colour, you're gonna assume that the character is white.
The longer I have to wait for a book I'm eager to read, the more worried I get that it won't live up to expectation. I think the more time I have, the higher I build my expectations - what usually happens is that I finally get the book and then I can't bring myself to read it in case I don't love it. Madness I tells ya!
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